Thoughts on 2010 and beyond

[Sparky69]

Hello Kelli and Gregg,

Congratulations on another fantastic voyage to Alaska. This is our third cruise and we just had a blast. We feel so lucky to be a part of such a wonderful experience.

It is this reason that I write you. Having been on several cruises and having attended the presentation for the 2010 products, I strongly urge you to reconsider.

My personal reaction of the 2010 products was one of disappointment and frustration. Your annual cruise event has become a tradition in my family and with friends. It is the time of year we look forward to that our children can play with one another and we can catch up on what has happened over the past year. It is also the one time of the year when we can let our guard down and be comfortable in our environment, not worrying about being judged or our children being judged. It was our vacation from the naysayers and the pessimists.

I went to your presentation on the cruises/Ixtapa and listened to what others had to say, then I gave some thought to your decision to change your product. I realized my opinion may be unique, so I did an informal poll over the course of the week, asking those at the table next to us at dinner and breakfast, those on the elevator and so on. The results were fairly consistent: They really enjoyed the full charter, it made them feel comfortable. They weren't sure about the large groups. One person said "all it takes is one person to ruin an entire vacation". Ixtapa, in theory, sounded fun, but it was just another beach.

Taken from your home page: " R Family Vacations is truly the most inclusive GLBT vacation offered. All of our vacations are designed for gays, lesbians, their families, and their friends." By pursuing a large group cruise, you will not be able to offer this to your clients. We come on these vacations because it is designed for US. The other ~2000 passengers will have no idea that they are going to be on a cruise with 500 GLBT passengers and that could be devastating. Why would we subject our children to this?

Ultimately, we all know why you are doing this. After all.. Rosie can't afford to pay for our vacations every year. ;) But before you abandon the 100% charter for 2010, here are some ideas to help boost bookings:

Advertise. And I don't mean just the printed kind. Use your existing customers to spread the word.

Offer a Referral Bonus. Your current clients are your biggest fans and who else better to sell your product. Offer some kind of award/reward for referring paying/booking clients. On board credit, cabin upgrade, credit to next booking, free cruise, bingo package, excursion, etc.

Grass Roots. Get your team members out in the community (outside of NY). Give presentations to local support groups, etc. In our city, the GLBT support center offers a class on parenting. You could support this group with a donation or have someone come and talk about what r family does for GLBT familes.

Let's face it, most of the GLBT families no longer troll the local bars, read the local "Gay-per" classifieds. We are not in downtown Manhattan, we're on Main Street in out in the 'burbs, reading the local paper and watching CNN. We're blended in with the average Joe sixpack, driving a minivan and grocery shopping at the local supermarket. That is where your missing market is.

We got lucky, my partner is a Rosie-maniac and learned of r family through her when she was on The View. Now, your company has no voice, no advocate out in the spotlight.

We want you to succeed! We want to help!

XOXO

[Valentine]

Commenting on the point of the company now having no voice.. I do agree that the RFamily Vacations name is definitely NOT out in the public eye enough. During the past week, I have been to several glbt events and mentioned my Amazing vacation.. and 90% of the people had never heard of RFamily. This is very unfortunate as these vacations are a wonderful experience that all GLBT families/singles/etc should get the opportunity to experience at least once. Presence at local GLBT venues (Pride events, expos, conventions, etc.) could make all the difference. Getting down to the grass roots is a wonderful way of putting it. I know that we all have a vested interest in seeing this company not only survive, but to thrive and grow..... the love that is shared during a week on an RFamily cruise cannot be found anywhere else....

A HUGE thank you to all who make this possible for us... Gregg, Kelli, Colin, Michael, Dan L, Dan M, Kathleen, Suzie, Lynn, Ryan, Kevin, Anne, Bernard, Ron, Rich, Chuck, Matt, Marya, Kim, Michelle, Diane, Rachel, Seth, Parker, Brian, etc. etc. etc.....

Kathy

[Sparky69]

A HUGE thank you to all who make this possible for us... Gregg, Kelli, Colin, Michael, Dan L, Dan M, Kathleen, Suzie, Lynn, Ryan, Kevin, Anne, Bernard, Ron, Rich, Chuck, Matt, Marya, Kim, Michelle, Diane, Rachel, Seth, Parker, Brian, etc. etc. etc.....

AMEN TO THAT!

[travelchix]

Agreed. I know RFamily sponsored our parenting conference down here in DC, but there was no mention of them at Pride, for example (which had a whole "family" area this year).

Some more ideas along these lines:

- group leader discounts: get a group of your friends to book 5? 8? cabins and get a stateroom credit
- "special discounts" for local family groups- let the local networks advertise for you. offer a small discount, for example, to members of gay parenting organizations in the major cities and you can bet that will be publicized by the organizations.
- thank you notes- our friends were the lead couple in the Iowa marriage case. Sending thank you's to those in our community making inroads for equality (and maybe a $50 stateroom credit or something if they decide to cruise/travel with RFamily) would get the name out there among people who are likely to be connected and know many other LGBT folks
- if you don't want to pay staff to attend pride events everywhere, how bout using your loyal fan base. I.e. hand out flyers at Pride, and get invited to a special "community volunteer cocktail hour" with all the stars/team on your next vacation. Or a free tshirt. Or a stateroom credit. The best people to advertise the cruise are those who have lived it.
- giveaways on LGBT blogs, like bilerico and mombian. RFamily swag or a signed copy of Seth's book, or something.

[DEchicks]

Gregg and Kelli - I would GLADLY volunteer to represent R Family at our local pride festival! It's coming up in September ;) All of these are great suggestions for spreading the word!

[shellswells]

Marketing costs big $$$. With that said, I have to agree better marketing strategy could be done. I like the refer a friend. That would give a lot of us incentive to grab a friend or relative or two to book.
I do a lot of volunteer work, but normally it is always the same people volunteering. Most people want some sort of compensation for effort given. Let's face it...we are a society of what's in it for me.

When Rosie was on air..she could market to those listeners. rfamily is Kelli & Gregg and rfamily...it is about the experience, the people. Each one of you is a celebrity or important in someones world. Taking a vacation is about spending time with family & friends in locations that may be exciting and new...so if you have 400 of rfamily along...that is 399 more than a regular vacation.

I've wanted to do a Hawaiian cruise for a while...and I think this would be a great cruise to bring the whole extended family on....

I've taken many cruises from the Med to Mexico, Carribean, Alaska:) disney to all adults, hands down rfamily is the best...this is from a straight woman.

Hope to see some of you on my next rfamily trip...whichever I may choose:)

[sally]

Hi,
i got an e-mail from SWEET (lesbian travel co.) offering a reward for organizing a group of 10 or more folks to take the cruise = $ 500.00 on board cruise credit for the group leader & $ 50.00 on board credit for each of the team members. this offer is on their website discoversweet.com under pricing.
maybe R Family would consider something like this?

[dstabile]

I'll do whatever is needed here. I will go to all the bars from New Hope to Philly and put flyers out and help spread the word! Any events in the area I will be there with flyers in hand!
There is nothing like an R Family full ship charter.

[gaydad_in_Fl]

Gregg and Kelli,
I too would love to volunteer to set up a booth here in Orlando for our Pride Parade Events (coming soon!!) I have been on 3 cruises now and I tell everyone I can about them!! It’s amazing how many people say to me “what is an rfamily cruise?” “I have never heard of them”. I think the more you spread the word with people like us that love to be on the cruises, with a positive outlook! The more people that we can get the word to the more it will help generate people to fill the ship. How many people came from the central Florida area on the last 9 cruises?
I know that at Gay Day’s here at Walt Disney World …which happens every year…..there are other Vacation groups offering things to the GLBT community. I know that I am not the only gay family man here!
Please open up and let us help you out! I would love to help you spread the word about rfamily vacations!!

[CUBAN PETE]

Hello everyone

we are in for the long run also, we will keep doing what we can to educate others about r family vacations like we have been doing since our first cruise in 2007. yes indeed we feel that everyone who is willing to listen should know about r family vacations and the value and impact they have on us all...

hugs and kissess to all,
johnny and michael " d.j. cuban pete "

[TruckerJohnT]

Albany NY here has a large gay population and I would be very glad to volunteer to set up a booth and promote next years cruise, but, our Pride festival is not until the first week of June. I'd be happy in the mean time to hold a educational seminar one nite at the oldest Gay & Lesbian&Transgendered Community Center in America, here in Albany. I'd would personally LOVE to go back to a full GLBT Charter Cruise and anything I can do to promote it, would be an honor.

Gregg & Keli, If I promise to give up the wrinkle police, can we get our charter back? I think this is why you folks decided not to do it next year! LOL just kidding, but I will close down the wrinkle police if need be!

[Gregg]

Hi Everyone,
The charter experience is not gone!
It's at Club Med next summer.

The groups are a chance for us to explore some additional, more exotic destinations together as another option. It's a new product for us that will give us a chance to take R Family guests on so many different travel experiences. We know that for some of you, you really want the full-charter experience. In 2010, we are offering that at Club Med.

The groups are going to give many of our guests the chance to sail together to places that we couldn't sell a full ship. Maybe down the road we could fill a ship of 2500 to Europe but not yet and we have a big demand (and great response) to our large group idea.

Hope to see all of you either at Club Med or on one of our exciting new groups.

:)
Gregg

[Sparky69]

Gregg,

I think we understand that, but I (we) am saying is that the full cruise charter is more appealing than the Club-Med full charter and from what I have read/heard this is the case with others too.

Given that r family has chosen to do the full charter at Club-Med for 2010, if you take us up on our offers to help extend the demand for the cruises, spreading the word, would you consider doing a full-charter for the cruises as well? The Ixtapa location is just another beach to me.

Thanks,
Chris

[ashes]

Gregg

Thanks, we are looking forward to seeing everyone that makes it to Mexico. The kids are excited to be going somewhere with so many activities and pools!!! I have heard it is a beautiful part of Mexico and no too hard for us from CA to get there.

Susan and I are also planning to do Hawaii and are thrilled you picked that location. Funny enough we were planning to look into a Hawaii cruise for spring break as Susan has never seen any of the islands. It will be even better now that we can be with many Rfamily friends and have Rfamily experiences.

[bullwinkle77]

We are so excited about going to Ixtapa (is it too early to start packing?) I would bet that Ixtapa is going to sell out quickly with only 300 rooms available. Many of us already signed up on the Alaska cruise. It goes on sale August 3rd. When we got back from Alaska, I sent out the information to everyone I knew and told them to not drag their feet. I predict Ixtapa will be booked full in no time at all! We already know several families going from our area.

[babaloos]

Like many, we will do whatever it takes to keep the charters going. Although we signed on for Europe...we really would rather it be a full ship experience than a group aboard a mainstream cruise. And we have put the word out there and talked it up big time, in the hope of getting as many families as possible to go on the cruise (the bigger the group, the more like a charter...). Still...there is no substitute for the vacations RFamily has offered and hosted in the past: chartered cruises. They are "safe," enjoyable, meaningful, and necessary for us and our kids.

Ixtapa will probably be a fantastic experience for some...but there are a limited number of rooms available (so not everyone will get to go), and for families like ours who do not wish to vacation on land (already have a time-share in Mexico for that), it's not terribly appealing. Times are tough, I think everyone realizes that...but it seems that MANY people would be happy to work for the betterment and advancement of RFamily...and the continuation of chartered cruises. We're here to help! :D

[Crazy aka Cheryl]

Like many, we will do whatever it takes to keep the charters going. Times are tough, I think everyone realizes that...but it seems that MANY people would be happy to work for the betterment and advancement of RFamily...and the continuation of chartered cruises. We're here to help! :D

Hey babaloos,
Nice post very well said.
I have faith that as soon as the economy starts moving in a more positive direction that I will be flying down the stairs in my OUTFIT on a Full Charter R Family Cruise.
My sentiments exactly.
R Fam forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CCC

[daleed77]

We were waiting for the information to book our first RFamily vacation and unfortunately we are disappointed with the large group sailing option. I had three families pumped up and ready and now no one is sure.

Besides wanting to be on a ship that is accepting, we were really looking forward to the entertainment. I have a feeling that the large group cruises aren't going to get the same caliber of entertainment that I've heard so much about.

I understand that Club Med is supposed to take the place of the charter experience. However, I'm not a fan of just going to a resort.

I think we are going to wait and see for a bit.

[ammie]

We're hoping that our spring break corresponds with the Hawaiian cruise. I love Hawaii, Patti's never been, and we're both game for seeing how this new type of cruise option works.

Another option that r family might investigate is the European river boat cruise. These are very intimate, approximately 100 rooms, and just lovely.

am

[lithops]

Hey, Gregg,

I don’t think you understand what is going on here. I know I don’t fully understand, but here’s what I see so far.
You said the next cruise would be announced on the Alaska cruise. I had family members who could not go on this one, committed to the next one wherever you chose to go.
Then, on the first night of the Alaska cruise, you announced you were introducing four new products, and NOT offering another traditional cruise.
Now, offering new products I get, But why not continue with what you invented and had success with, I don’t get it and unless I missed the meeting, you have not explained it.
After reading these forums, it looks like the worst business decision since Coca-cola decided to introduce New Coke and stop selling Coca-cola.. It cost the company millions to re-introduce Coca-cola Classic. I don’t think any company since then has taken their primary product off the market as a way of adapting to change. So the question is why is r Family?
( I must add that I know these cruises are a very magical product. Beyond providing a safe affirming place for Gay and Lesbian families, i\\the experience taps some fundamental elements of human neuroscience)
Without your explanation, people seem to be explaining it so--
--the sales of the Alaska cruise were bad because of trouble in the cruise industry
--it’s a bad economy and r family is threatened.
--Rosie has been subsidizing our vacation and is no longer on the View
Personally,. I think r Family may be struggling with issues you do not wish to make public (I am fine with that), but there are no reasons for bad business decisions.
If your sales are down, you have a untapped force of devoted customers who want to be organized to sell your product. Most companies would go crazy!
If you are not profitable, I know a great business consultant.
If you need capital, form a corporation and I and others will gladly buy stock.
Gregg, please explain why you have taken your foundation product off the market.
And hear WE WANT r FAMILY CLASSIC.

[travelchix]

Hey, Gregg,

I don’t think you understand what is going on here. I know I don’t fully understand, but here’s what I see so far.
You said the next cruise would be announced on the Alaska cruise. I had family members who could not go on this one, committed to the next one wherever you chose to go.
Then, on the first night of the Alaska cruise, you announced you were introducing four new products, and NOT offering another traditional cruise.
Now, offering new products I get, But why not continue with what you invented and had success with, I don’t get it and unless I missed the meeting, you have not explained it.
After reading these forums, it looks like the worst business decision since Coca-cola decided to introduce New Coke and stop selling Coca-cola.. It cost the company millions to re-introduce Coca-cola Classic. I don’t think any company since then has taken their primary product off the market as a way of adapting to change. So the question is why is r Family?
( I must add that I know these cruises are a very magical product. Beyond providing a safe affirming place for Gay and Lesbian families, i\\the experience taps some fundamental elements of human neuroscience)
Without your explanation, people seem to be explaining it so--
--the sales of the Alaska cruise were bad because of trouble in the cruise industry
--it’s a bad economy and r family is threatened.
--Rosie has been subsidizing our vacation and is no longer on the View
Personally,. I think r Family may be struggling with issues you do not wish to make public (I am fine with that), but there are no reasons for bad business decisions.
If your sales are down, you have a untapped force of devoted customers who want to be organized to sell your product. Most companies would go crazy!
If you are not profitable, I know a great business consultant.
If you need capital, form a corporation and I and others will gladly buy stock.
Gregg, please explain why you have taken your foundation product off the market.
And hear WE WANT r FAMILY CLASSIC.

I think clubmed is supposed to be RFamily Classic. As Gregg explained on the cruise, it's hard to sell out a ship (and has been hard this cruise and the last two cruises as well- as evidenced by the 2 for 1s, the price drops, and other sales). There are also very very few 'smaller" ships out there- cruise lines are going for bigger and bigger (as evidenced by the new Norwegian Epic, which holds something like 4000 guests). In this economy, it doesn't really make sense for rfamily to commit in advance to selling out a whole ship, when they haven't been able to do it easily the past 3 times. (it seems like different times- Alaska the first go round sold out months in advance- this time it seems like it still wasn't full when we sailed). also, some people have been asking about land vacations. So to give people what they want (a full-charter, rfamily only experience) without having to commit to charter a boat they may not be able to sell out, rfamily is offering Club Med, which is smaller and easier to sell out. for those who are dying to cruise, or who want to go to europe or hawaii or sail on the epic, there are additional options. Does that make sense?

I do agree that rfamily really should tap the potential of folks who are volunteering to hit the streets for them- and other creative ideas that have been posted here. Maybe then they can sell out ships again, especially once the economy turns around!

[ColoradoDad]

It pretty much boils down to two really simple choices - go or don't go... People can debate all they want about why the different cruises are being offered but in the end, the choices for 2010 are quite clear. They're not going to appeal to everyone, but what does? Anyone who has read these forums for some time can remember past posts griping about how they won't go on the cruises anymore because... 'they've been there before'; 'they live close to there anyway'; 'they want a land vacation'; 'they want a different option because they can't afford to travel to the port city'; and any other reason you can think of.
So am I telling people not to express their opinion? No, of course not. But when people start trying to teach the company how to practice business, the discussion gets old fast. The decisions have been made - now... go or don't go, and after the summer of 2010, RFamily will figure out what works for them as a company and what doesn't. I, for one, with a recently expanded family, am just going to do everything I can to afford a good vacation this year. Hopefully it will be with RFamily.

[lithops]

I understand that we are all fundamentally customers- Buy/Don’t buy. But when the product we want to buy is taken off the market, we are not happy. I understand Kelli and Gregg are the ones making decisions, and taking the risks. I don’t believe customer feedback, even on their business choices is “Telling them what to do”.
When a product is not selling well, you have two questions- Is there something wrong with the product and would new products reach new markets? Is there something wrong with the marketing of a great product?
I think many on this forum are saying to rFamily-“you have a GREAT product, probably better that you realize. And we don’t see what we experience being marketed” We also hope the new products will be great and expand the markets
I have, in these exchanges, realized that expressing what I know is more complicated than I thought. I need to take the time and put my thoughts together and send it off to Gregg and Kelli. I will do that.
Meantime, Thanks for listening.:
.

[Mias2Moms]

I understand that we are all fundamentally customers- Buy/Don’t buy. But when the product we want to buy is taken off the market, we are not happy. I understand Kelli and Gregg are the ones making decisions, and taking the risks. I don’t believe customer feedback, even on their business choices is “Telling them what to do”.
When a product is not selling well, you have two questions- Is there something wrong with the product and would new products reach new markets? Is there something wrong with the marketing of a great product?
I think many on this forum are saying to rFamily-“you have a GREAT product, probably better that you realize. And we don’t see what we experience being marketed” We also hope the new products will be great and expand the markets
I have, in these exchanges, realized that expressing what I know is more complicated than I thought. I need to take the time and put my thoughts together and send it off to Gregg and Kelli. I will do that.
Meantime, Thanks for listening.:
.

You put some sound reasoning behind your opinions so you should contact Gregg and Kelli directly but please continue to post here, it wasn't complicated at all.

[lithops]

You put some sound reasoning behind your opinions so you should contact Gregg and Kelli directly but please continue to post here, it wasn't complicated at all.

Thanks, I will.

[ColoradoDad]

Lithops, yes, many here are saying, 'You have a great product, etc....'. But as I stated in the previous post, people have been saying many other things too, and the standard 'once-a-year cruise isn't always what they're asking for. These are opinions from people that have been coming in now for years, not just immediate reactions after finding out about RFamily's plans for 2010.
Besides, the RFamily forums represent only a small fraction of their customers, so I am only left to assume that the company relies on many forms of research to conclude what is going to be offered instead of solely relying on this webpage. These forums, however, DO represent a portion of the core customer base, so I'm sure that Gregg and Kelli take this, as well as everything else into consideration. But on a site where one person can have literally hundreds of posts, all saying essentially the same thing, you're going to have to filter through a lot of information to get a true picture. And what is it that they say about customer service? Last I heard, people about 20 times more likely to complain about something than compliment it. These forums are no different.
RFamily, like any other service-oriented business ultimately answers to their customers, but few people ever realize that they have to listen to ALL of their customers, the ones who post here and the ones who don't; the ones who loves the cruises and the ones who crave something different; the ones who hate that they can't go on a full-chartered cruise next year and the ones who can't wait to go to Ixtapa or Europe. Like I said before, by the fall of 2010, they'll know how successful their plans were, and at the very least, have a lot more information at their fingertips about what kind of vacations that gay families want. They run the risk of losing some of their customer base, but they also have an opportunity to expand it in many ways.

[Sparky69]

You put some sound reasoning behind your opinions so you should contact Gregg and Kelli directly but please continue to post here, it wasn't complicated at all.

I agree. What you say here is another way of saying what I was trying to.

[Mias2Moms]

They run the risk of losing some of their customer base, but they also have an opportunity to expand it in many ways.

It is a well publicized fact that rFamily was started with an idea at Family Week in Provincetown. The idea was to put something together for gay families so they and their children have a place to just be and to be around other families like theirs. Gay families was the niche not just a 'customer base'.

As word got out the cruises appealed to a lot of different people. I saw, and still see the posts on here all the time. 'I am single, no kids', 'we have no kids', 'our kids are grown', etc. etc. all asking if they could still come. I even remember seeing a post where a straight woman wrote in that she and a friend wanted to come along because if Rosie was involved no one would make fun of them because they were fat, could they come along? 'Of course', rightfully, was the answer. The cruises turned into a beautiful blend of people all getting along and being worry free for a week but the focus remained on the children. At least until the last cruise it did.

So now there are a lot of variations of the type of vacations people are looking for. I don't have a problem with rFamily expanding to the large groups cruises to try and give their customers what they want and, hopefully, finally make some money. If they want to go out and compete with the likes of 'Olivia', fine. If they want to test new waters, great because the last thing I want is for them to go out of business. I do not, however, like the idea that they are moving away from what started it all - providing a vacation option for gay families. A large group experience on a Disney or Nic cruise would be more appealing. Customers who are upset should be very vocal about it. It is not as simple as 'just go or don't go'.

So Mexico is what they are offering next year for those who think like me. The big selling point so far has be the free alcohol, so exactly how family (children) oriented will it be with the hot July weather, the hot beaches and free booze?

So I'll have to wait and see what rFamily has to offer before I sign up to go. Not what the location or what Club Med has to offer and not the availability of a 'kids zone' where I can drop off my child and go have a seperate experience. I am looking for a place to take my family and spend time together, with other families like mine. You know, rFamilies.

[Alaska2009]

Well, we'll see what will happen...They're experimenting. I felt that maybe they should have just done two large-group trips and Club Ixtapa..They might have spread themselves too thin. The change in Rosie and Kelli's relationship might also impact the trip.

I've been unemployed since the Alaska cruise last summer (they laid me off the day before I left!!) so I won't be able to do a trip anywhere this year..

But still, compared to so many other Gay cruises this concept is too unique to just give up. I'm sure in some format rFamily Vacations will survive.

[kpal1123]

I'm also concerned. Before we were a family traveling together. We knew we would see the faces of the 'regulars' on every trip we went on. Now we are going to Hawaii and I can't find one 'regular' that is going. How can we make a trip without CRAZY CHERYL? When realizing we couldn't fill a large ship, I was hoping for either a smaller ship or land vacations where everyone could be together. With so many small groups it seems so different to what the R Family experience is about. Which to us was ONE family together.

[rayjohns]

It would be nice if this website was updated. It's not too assuring to see the promotion of the Alaska cruise not replaced by more of this year's events.

[Crazy aka Cheryl]

I'm also concerned. Before we were a family traveling together. We knew we would see the faces of the 'regulars' on every trip we went on. Now we are going to Hawaii and I can't find one 'regular' that is going. How can we make a trip without CRAZY CHERYL? When realizing we couldn't fill a large ship, I was hoping for either a smaller ship or land vacations where everyone could be together. With so many small groups it seems so different to what the R Family experience is about. Which to us was ONE family together.

AWW that is so sweet. Could use that after todays first round of pounding. Listen granted we wont have the wholeship. But who else is going with hundreds of there friends. There will still be the R family together. Just not as many. We need to keep up on the boards and stay conncected. I moss talking to all you guys.
No wories there are reggulars faces you know that are going. You never know what who could POP up.
Thanks you made my day.
I cant wrap my head around not being on anything where my R Fam wiull be.
It is going to worok out,.
I have friends . I expect to plan a huge Pre Cruise dinner so everyone will know there Fram.
CCC