Mixed Group Thoughts

[Shiningstar1977]

I am just curious from the long time cruisers and the new cruisers alike what you think of the mixed group cruises.

I didn't attend the info sessions on the boat because immediately we were turned off by the idea but in all fairness i'm curious what others are thinking.

Overall we went on the R Family Vacation because it was just that... R Family... It sounds to me (correct me if I'm wrong) that the mixed boat will have around 400 rooms that are for R family and the rest of the boat will not be... Is that 50% or less...?

We loved the atmosphere of the R Family and completely being free... We loved the families that could be themselves and watching the kids have a great time possibly in the one place where they do not have to defend their families and their parents. How can that be maintained on the large ship.

We were a little skewed after our first excursion in Ketchikan... We were on an Excursion that picked up people from another cruise ship. It took them less then 10 minutes to figure out who they were with and the textin amongst them selves and the giggling ensued.

Of course we just ignored them and stayed out of their group but my assumption would be even with separate meals, some entertainment and possibly excursions you still would be put in these type of situations..

Does anyone have these concerns? What are your thoughts?

We always start thinking about the next vacation as soon as we finish one... it gives us something to look forward to....

[travelchix]

I think it's great that RFamily is able to branch out and do some additional things, perhaps make a little money, and provide alternatives and choices of what to do. They're still doing the Mexico thing, which is the same as a full charter (as far as atmosphere) so I see the mixed cruises as additional choices not something to take the place of the "only us" vacation.

I frequently read cruisecritic.com's boards, and there are some interesting posts about the negative reactions of *some* cruisers to having any large group aboard their ship, whether it is a gay group or a group of jazz music lovers, because they think it impacts their access to venues, areas of the ship, etc. So I would think there's a chance of some animosity- whether because of the gay factor or because of just being in a big group that is using parts of the ship. But i bet most people would be just fine if not friendly and warm. Also, at least two of the big group cruises are really port intensive (and the third, the Epic, is so gigantic, I'm not sure the other 3500 people on the ship will notice) so even if the whole ship were chartered, there'd be lots and lots of contact with "the outside world". And there's something really empowering about being with a large group of other gay families, and a chance to do some educating by example while really enjoying yourself.

I'm rambling but I guess it depends on what you are looking to get out of the cruise and how important the total shelter factor is to you. And how much you care about the chance that a few people might not be super accepting or might be annoyed at the large group or both and how that would impact your trip or your kids' trip. We, for example, love it that our kids are in the kids club with only (or almost only) other kids of LGBT families/allies. And that they don't need to defend their families and we don't have to worry about someone else covering their kids' eyes or flipping out if we are hugging, holding hands, or (gasp) giving each other a peck on the cheek. That'd be a little different on the group cruises, right? I mean if you have 5 other kids in the kids club w 2 moms or dads, it will help, but not totally shelter you if the other 10-15 kids (or a vocal 2 or 3 of them) are telling you your family is gross. That said, this could happen even on the RFamily cruise- a friend of my son was in tears and refused to wear pants (even her lumberjack costume she had been so proud of) the last 5 days of the recent Alaska cruise because another boy in kids club told her she was dressed like a boy because she was wearing pants.:rolleyes:

Anyway, still rambling because those are the things that are most important to us when we decide to go somewhere with RFamily, I think Mexico would be a better fit for us if we do anything next year. But I know just as many people who are more into the entertainment and the other RFamily friends that they've made and want to travel with that "family" and/or don't have kids and/or don't worry as much about the complete shelter because that's just life. And I think the group cruises are great for them and lots of other people or maybe even for us if we weren't going with out kiddos (and probably for the company- they have very little risk but can make some money, stay afloat (pun intended) and then we can still do our full charters down the road!)

I think it's important that the groups are not meant to supplant the full charter experience- as Kelli said, if you are looking for that, go to Club Med. I think it's a matter of offering things that customers have asked for (Hawaii and Europe) in a way that is affordable and manageable for the company.

[seannmike]

Our first cruise as a family (two dads and son) was not an R Family Cruise. We were part of a subgroup of about 150 handbell ringers (with friends and family) on a Holland America cruise. Our son was about 10 mos. old and wasn't crawling or walking yet.

Our time on that cruise was probably more magical than our subsequent first R family cruise to Mexico. (But the recent Alaska cruise rocked!) We were almost mini-celebrities. We did participate (and won) the Newlywed game, which resulted in the only negative experience we were aware of. An older gentleman told us we were disgusting. However, numerous people came to our defense and commended to cruise line (HAL) for having us in the show.

We also made friends with at least one woman who told us we had changed her feelings about gay families and that she would now be more understanding if one of her own children turned out to be gay.

I think that a contingent of 400 would naturally become closer on a cruise because you'd recognize more of them over the course of a week.

These are just a few thoughts to consider. I'm glad to see R Family offer some choices. I also think that they are being realistic in trying to develop a sustainable business model.

Michael (from San Francisco)

[ammie]

There are definite benefits to having the whole boat. There is no doubt about that. However, it appears to be financially infeasible to continue this product in this economic environment. Thus, r family has put together several creative options which are feasible at this time.

Up until now, r family vacations has offered the "ideal" cruise. Unfortunately, our economy is less than ideal.

[candue]

A friend???? told me she felt that the straight people should know that "the gays" will be on board. After reacting to that statement :( I realized that it would be an opportunity en masse to educate a lot of people at one time. They might see normal taxpayers, parenting, bonding with other families, traveling with other straight people with no intent other than to enjoy the same cruise. While vacation may not be the optimum time to do that this presents the ideal opportunity with support.

[hoop31]

We have alot of the same thoughts as some of you.....

I am excited for Rfamily that they are branching out and have heard from many people that they are interested in those destinations.

With that said, we will not be going on the mixed cruises with our kids because we love the atmosphere of total boat experience. We love that our kids don't have to defend there family and that they are surrounded with other kids that have families like theirs. I love that our daughter knows its ok to have two moms and that she also thinks its cool that some kids have 2 dads. Rfamily has a special place in our hearts and in our life. We plan on traveling with them every year that we can afford it so that our kids will always have at least one place to feel 'normal'. Mexico is that place next summer and we are going to do everything in our power to be there.

As for the other cruises....if we can find a baby sitter for the week my partner and I might try one of the other cruises without kids. :)

[hoop31]

A friend???? told me she felt that the straight people should know that "the gays" will be on board. After reacting to that statement :( I realized that it would be an opportunity en masse to educate a lot of people at one time. They might see normal taxpayers, parenting, bonding with other families, traveling with other straight people with no intent other than to enjoy the same cruise. While vacation may not be the optimum time to do that this presents the ideal opportunity with support.


'a friend????" funny, one of my 'friends' told me the same thing...I thought it was odd....

[candue]

I think if I went someone will have to tell them I am fat too!

[ammie]

TJ, Don't worry, straight people are fat too. Unless you live in NYC, where everyone seems to be anorexic. :confused: Or, is that just my perception?

[jklangbehn]

I guess as a 3 time cruiser on Rfamily who actually did a Disney cruise before Rfamily was formed with my partner's entire family. It was just not for us or our 4 adopted kids (hands down our kids have said the Rfamily cruises are 100% better than their Disney experience).. you would think disney is fine.. but for us the utopia of Rfamily wasn't there.. and we are a pretty much mainstream family - especially around my partner's parents - that being said.

. I think the destinations are **** exciting.. and sent the info to my (now deceased) partner's family to see if maybe they would want to join "us" on a cruise and see what Rfamily is about.. so I guess that is how I'm looking at it. No doubt it will be different.. than an all Rfamily boat.. but if you go into it knowing that... then you just set your expectations just when you go to other vacations spots when it's not all "us".

hopefully that is clear.

[travelchix]

'a friend????" funny, one of my 'friends' told me the same thing...I thought it was odd....

I don't know- I kind of agree that they should be told if they ask. Just because I'd want to know if 1/4 of my ship was a certain group that I may not feel comfortable with- like fundamentalist southern baptists- I'm trying to think of a group to give as an example that is not associated with religious fundamentalism, but my own biases come out (and my granny was a baptist!)! I'd rather have people who are so uncomfortable with a gay group that they would change cruises have the chance to do so rather than dealing with them on the ship. That said, I'm pretty sure it is NCL policy to not publicize any groups sailing with them, so I wouldn't want them to do it just for our group.

[DiverBizz]

I work in a completely accepting environment-but I would not hug and give my wife a kiss on the cheek at work. I live in an area that appears to have no problem with "our family" neighbors come to by just to chat-but I would not hug and give my wife a kiss on the cheek with the neighbors present. At church we are completely accepted and we do hold hands in that mixed world-they even held an anniversary party for those of use who married before prop. 8 passed. We have been on a non-rfamily cruise before and had a great time but if we were on a mixed cruise with rfamily (400 strong) we would hold hands and I would give my wife a kiss on the cheek if I wanted.

I would be disappointed if one of my accepting friends said to me that the other cruisers should know that the GAYS were coming. Although I would hate to be on a ship with a group of individuals who may do harm to any one on the ship because of who we are. Just rambling on sorry.

If we could afford all the cruises and Mexico we would do it.

[DEchicks]

We are hoping to travel to Europe next year with rFamily and we are hoping that the response from our community will be such that additional space on the ship will be needed for the rFamily group (as Gregg indicated could possibly be the case!) I was hesitant at first about the idea of a "mixed" cruise and I completely understand the hesitation and concern of those traveling with children! My initial thoughts were "yeh - if I were traveling with young children I wouldn't do it, I'd stick with the total charter experience." However, I do hope that families will participate in the large group trips because I think it is such a wonderfully important way for the rest of the world to see that gay and lesbian families are in fact "normal"...just like their families! Actually, as others have pointed out here on the forums, the lgbt families are in reality WAY less dysfunctional than what you see of hetero-families on vacation! It seems that our families have to worry so much about protecting our children from discrimination that we tend to live (and vacation) rather sheltered. Many, many people on the "outside" have no concept of what an lgbt family truly looks like and therefore it's a scary unknown to them. I believe that if more people could see and interact with lgbt families on a regular basis hearts (and hopefully, in turn, politics!) would change. But I do understand the concerns and the need to protect our children. I guess what it comes down to is truly a personal decision on the part of each family of how much "protection" is needed for your family and how much "risk" each is willing to assume in order to educate society. Sorry for all the rambling....

[travelchix]

I completely understand the hesitation and concern of those traveling with children! My initial thoughts were "yeh - if I were traveling with young children I wouldn't do it, I'd stick with the total charter experience." However, I do hope that families will participate in the large group trips because I think it is such a wonderfully important way for the rest of the world to see that gay and lesbian families are in fact "normal"...just like their families! Actually, as others have pointed out here on the forums, the lgbt families are in reality WAY less dysfunctional than what you see of hetero-families on vacation! It seems that our families have to worry so much about protecting our children from discrimination that we tend to live (and vacation) rather sheltered. Many, many people on the "outside" have no concept of what an lgbt family truly looks like and therefore it's a scary unknown to them.
...
I guess what it comes down to is truly a personal decision on the part of each family of how much "protection" is needed for your family and how much "risk" each is willing to assume in order to educate society. Sorry for all the rambling....

I don't think the mixed group experience would be "bad" for my kids or too "risky" - I think at most, there would be comments, maybe some negative behavior by one or two other passengers, but I dont think the mixed group cruises would be "so bad" my kids wouldn't enjoy it. it's more about when are we willing to pay the premium that comes with taking an RFamily vacation. Because for us, we're willing to pay extra to get the sheltered atmosphere. we love the company, fellow passengers, and the entertainment, but what we really go for is the environment. I think that's actually in part because the rest of our lives are not particularly sheltered- including our other vacations. So for us we're willing to pay the "extra" for the Mexico experience, but might not be up for paying extra to go on the mixed cruises, at least next year. But I do think if we had different circumstances (maybe if we were doing a moms' only vacation), it would totally be worth it. So I'm glad they are giving lots of options- I think you're right that there's no one answer that fits everyone.

Edited to add- when I say pay "extra," I just mean paying more than what you would otherwise pay to do that cruise/itinerary if it were not RFamily.

[traingirl]

I would have to agree with some of the thoughts already posted. This was my second rfamily cruise, and the only reason we chose this was because we knew it would be just our families.

Alaska was amazing, but part of that was feeling comfortable. As gay families, we are part of a bigger ship every day of our lives. I don't want to go on vacation where that will happen again. This seemed to be the sentiment of many of my friends on this year's cruise as well. My partner and I will wait for the next only rfamily cruise.

I do think more PR might help. I have talked with several people from the community here in Vancouver, and none of them have heard of rfamily vacations but thought it would be a great idea for a vacation.

Lisa

[JLDseattle]

Hi LIsa, Where are you in Vancouver? We are on Vancouver as well.

[traingirl]

I am staying with a friend on the east side of Vancouver. I leave to go home tomorrow.

[spunquilts]

I have adult children now so my situation is a bit different but I have to say that I can't help thinking about the reactions in Bermuda or the Bahamas for that matter when it was a full boat of rfamily vacationers. I'm not sure I would want my kids to have to deal with all of that.

[Dads2Henry]

Our son is almost 3, and we just did our 4th r family cruise. We love the charter concept because it does feel like a utopia of sorts. But, there is something to be said about a more "realistic" vacation experience like that planned with the large groups, and the opportunities to show the world our LGBT families and potentially promote some tolerance and acceptance. The bottom line is we want to go on a cruise to Europe, and I'd rather do it knowing that a big chunk of the boat will be LGBT families.

The nice thing is that people have choices - the full Club Med Charter, the large group cruises, or both. We're planning both!

Jeff

[ColoradoDad]

The way I see it, we don't live on a street populated only with gay families, nor do we live in a town with all-gay families. When we vacation, our planes have mostly straight families as do our hotels, even the ones we stayed in before the all-gay family cruise we took. I'm not saying it's not a great thing to take a full-chartered cruise, but if it's not available that year, so what? The options for next year are great - friendly ports on nice boats. It's all good - go on a fun trip, meet new people, have a great time, then go home. Personally, going on a cruise where we're happy about the cruise line and the destinations, and knowing there will be at least some other similar families would make a great vacation for us. I'll never knock the experience of a full-chartered RFamily cruise, just saying that ultimately, a vacation is what you make of it, and in 2010, RFamily just gave its customers a lot of good new options.

[dreamerr]

I hope that if we have to do mixed the prices will reflect that. Anyone can get on the same cruise at regular price and not pay the premium if it is a mixed ship. I personally am not interested in educating while vacationing but I do understand the business decision. Makes me feel bad that I had no choice to miss this last cruise.

[Reflektion84]

I guess I have a slightly different viewpoint as I'm 25 and single, however, as much as I love our entire charter, (and trust me, I LOVED the boat this year.. I wish we were all still together), I hope that perhaps if other families get to coincide with us for a week, perhaps it might allow them to realize that we're no different then them, and maybe change some minds. I know none of us want to go on vacation and feel we have to be making a statement, but hopefully just in the act of living our lives, other people can see our wonderful families and convince them to open their hearts and minds.

[babaloos]

We have been on as many mainstream cruises as RFamly cruises...and although we would always opt for RFamily, we have had great times on non-chartered cruises. In fact, we prefer other cruiselines (NCL is our least favorite) and have had only good experiences...despite the fact that they were only a handful of gay people sailing (and fewer kids of gay moms/dads). Having a "group" of RFamily passengers will, if nothing else, be better than simply sailing on a non-chartered cruise with few or no gay families.

[Mias2Moms]

I guess I have a slightly different viewpoint as I'm 25 and single, however, as much as I love our entire charter, (and trust me, I LOVED the boat this year.. I wish we were all still together), I hope that perhaps if other families get to coincide with us for a week, perhaps it might allow them to realize that we're no different then them, and maybe change some minds. I know none of us want to go on vacation and feel we have to be making a statement, but hopefully just in the act of living our lives, other people can see our wonderful families and convince them to open their hearts and minds.

What you say is very true but the act of living our lives is what we do every day, day in and day out. At school (every year), dance, music lessons, PTA, Girl Scouts, meeting new neighbors, at the beach, at a store, at a playground, at a birthday party, at an amusement park, at a museum, at the movies, at a play, etc. etc. etc. Over and over again we educate, sometimes just by our presence, sometimes by explanation. However, we are also always on guard. Although it doesn't consume us, we are always aware. As a parent we have to be. It's the same as taking her hand to cross a street.

When we go on an rFamily cruise there are other families just like ours, lots of families. A new friend for my daughter assumes we are her mothers. We don't have to watch our conversation in a restaurant. No looking over our shoulder to see who might be around. No guarding our daughter from unwanted lectures about our families or from the stares and frowns. It is the family atomoshere that is the added draw for us too. Everyone aboard knows it's a family cruise, there will be children, whether you have one or not.

The atmoshere brings a sense of security and calm. We know our daughter feels it too. We do it for her.