Whaddya think? "If you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all"

[BListTrace]

"If you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all."

I remember hearing this old adage most of my life and have read it recently here in this forum. I wonder what it means to other people? How and when do you use it? Do you believe in it? Is it something you have taught or would teach to your children? Is it a timeless piece of wisdom or an old adage or a nice way to say "shut up"? What do you think?

All postings are appreciated, respected and welcome. Differing opinions and perspectives are encouraged. Open hearts and minds are required.

[Upstate]

"If you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all."

I remember hearing this old adage most of my life and have read it recently here in this forum. I wonder what it means to other people? How and when do you use it? Do you believe in it? Is it something you have taught or would teach to your children? Is it a timeless piece of wisdom or an old adage or a nice way to say "shut up"? What do you think?

All postings are appreciated, respected and welcome. Differing opinions and perspectives are encouraged. Open hearts and minds are required.

B-list,

I'm very much enjoying your postings and the apparent clarity of your writing.

I personally think the adage carries many differrent subtler statements within it's prose. I've actually seen it used in each of the ways you've outlined in your question with a strong propensity to fall more flatly on the "shut up" side of things. Only those folks that are looking to be offended could find "not nice" remarks in either of our posts. I respect and support Rosie...I'm a HUGE fan...her stand up special in either 94 or 95 was absolutely hilarious!!!! Many of her projects are absolutely amazing, her blog, this cruise line (with the strong efforts of others) as well as her work in the often jibed "Riding With My Sister" movie.

Since I own my company I first-hand understand how difficult "work" can be, but I'm pretty comfortable with the idea that Rosie would not personally be offended by either one of us...and may even agree. We all seek to become better at what it is that we do..I believe. When a client is open enough to share a concern with me I'm thrilled as it creates opportunity...I never take it personally, as it is not personal. If you're looking to BE offended the world will oblige. There is an insightful little book called The Four Agreements by Miguel Ruiz that I recommend everyone read.

One last point of interest; We celebrate Rosie's honesty and courage in sharing her thoughts and views in one post and then kindly ask that others not do the same. I don't quite get that, but Hell, I'm not offended.

[BListTrace]

Thanks, Up! I appreciate your perspective and insight. As I told Wendee in a private message, this is something I'm trying to work through and figure out if it is really a message I want to teach my sons. I agree that it has many different subtler statements and that is what has most likely brought this to the surface for me.

Thanks again for sharing.

Trace

[Upstate]

I think a better thing to teach children that addresses the worth of the aforementioned statement is: "Do unto others as you would have done unto you." "Walk a mile"....and other truly valuable sharing the world concepts. Thanks for the thanks.

[BListTrace]

We've really tried to teach and have "sharing the world" concepts as a foundation for our own lives and parenting. I think it is almost crucial bringing up a family in our "modern" American culture, especially gay families. Crikey, mate (RIP Steve-O) - it scares me to imagine a world of just one race, one culture, one color, one religon, one morality, one set of values, etc.

[Upstate]

I think we all do share one set of values.
{gasp}
Morality In Politics" - Great little read.
All the rest is mere adornment.

Does anyone think it a little Darwinian to value diversity? Kind of a just in case one kind doesn't make it senerio? I personally value inclusion and think we should be careful with the metaphors we conjur to help us understand our reality.

Does anyone else ever think that when a "minority" garners enough membership it begins to act just like a "majority". hmmmm

{Disclaimer: I may have stepped above myself a bit on this one and by no means is this a reflection on the ability of the author whom wrote "Morality In Politics" to translate difficult to understand concepts.}

[Upstate]

I think we all do share one set of values.
{gasp}
Morality In Politics" - Great little read.
All the rest is mere adornment.

Does anyone think it a little Darwinian to value diversity? Kind of a just in case one kind doesn't make it senerio? I personally value inclusion and think we should be careful with the metaphors we conjur to help us understand our reality.

Does anyone else ever think that when a "minority" garners enough membership it begins to act just like a "majority". hmmmm

{Disclaimer: I may have stepped above myself a bit on this one and by no means is this a reflection on the ability of the author whom wrote "Morality In Politics" to translate difficult to understand concepts.}

That should have read "just in case one kind doesn't make it" senerio
OCD

[BListTrace]

or scenario? It's confusing sometimes - all that spelling and writing and stuff...<WEG>

[Upstate]

or scenario? It's confusing sometimes - all that spelling and writing and stuff...<WEG>
LOL..I can believe I did that twice...**** spellcheck has made me a co-dependant

[BListTrace]

I think we all do share one set of values.
{gasp}
Morality In Politics" - Great little read.
All the rest is mere adornment.

Does anyone think it a little Darwinian to value diversity? Kind of a just in case one kind doesn't make it senerio? I personally value inclusion and think we should be careful with the metaphors we conjur to help us understand our reality.

Does anyone else ever think that when a "minority" garners enough membership it begins to act just like a "majority". hmmmm

{Disclaimer: I may have stepped above myself a bit on this one and by no means is this a reflection on the ability of the author whom wrote "Morality In Politics" to translate difficult to understand concepts.}

Diversity or pluralism? And is the "just in case one doesn't make it" statement like when a friend of ours rubbed holy water on the foreheads of my sons at the baptisms of their kids "just in case"? Inclusion is good - gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling inside.

Hhhhmmmm...minority groups garnering membership and acting like majority groups...would that be oppression of those judged to be less like the majority, suppression of thoughts and ideas different from the new majority, the elimination or censorship of the non-compliant minority? Wow - and I didn't even touch on the whole denial of civil and human rights to non-conformists, etc. Double crikey, mate.

Then again, it is survival of the fittest. Guess I better start taking my vitamins and eating my Wheaties.

[Upstate]

Diversity or pluralism? And is the "just in case one doesn't make it" statement like when a friend of ours rubbed holy water on the foreheads of my sons at the baptisms of their kids "just in case"? Inclusion is good - gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling inside.

Hhhhmmmm...minority groups garnering membership and acting like majority groups...would that be oppression of those judged to be less like the majority, suppression of thoughts and ideas different from the new majority, the elimination or censorship of the non-compliant minority? Wow - and I didn't even touch on the whole denial of civil and human rights to non-conformists, etc. Double crikey, mate.

Then again, it is survival of the fittest. Guess I better start taking my vitamins and eating my Wheaties.


(Pluralism) - potentially better suited to the point. Thanks much. Don't bother with the vitamins or the Wheaties.

[BListTrace]

Don't bother with the vitamins or the Wheaties.\

You say that now. Wait until you see me try to pass the President's Physical Fitness Challenge. Does that still exist? It was torture for this pleasantly plump lesbian that couldn't do pull-ups, push-ups or run a quarter mile in the 6th, 7th or 8th grade. **** you, Arnold and your physical fitness!

[dreamerr]

Blist just for your info. We stopped using the President Physical Fitness test and now use fitness gram. This is only a year old but it is more ridget in the way you give the test. I am sure you really didn't want to know but now you know.

[BListTrace]

Dreamerr...I did actually want to know. I was so happy the day I slammed by fingers in the car door, had to have stitches in my finger and got out of those stupid pull-ups! Thanks for the info!

[dreamerr]

You will be happy to know that pull-ups aren't part of the new test. It is body weight, ht and bmi. You also have what is called a pacer test, curl ups, push ups, trunk lift and sit and reach. You can still do pull ups if you don't want to do push ups. I don't think so, hehe.

I don't want to even give the test and I know the students don't want to take it. We will get through it together. I told them the scores are personal and it doesn't effect there grade.:o

[BListTrace]

Thank gawd, a humane and proper physical education professional! In high school I figured out that if I sucked up to my sistahs, the lesbian P.E. teachers, I could get out of all stupid fitness tests. I liked playing the organized sports! Give me a volleyball, basketball or softball and it was GAME ON! I was such a little dyke.

[Jan V]

On Physical Ed. - we ran into my daughter's PE teacher in P-town two years ago, good to see him there.

On "If you can't say something nice..." - Doesn't work for me, at least not globally. There are times when it fits, times when it does not. "Do unto others.." is probably more my philosophy, taking into account what other people want / need and not necessarily what I would want.

[itsmewendee]

Since you asked...
Although I'm the one who first said it on this thread, I also agree with 'do unto others...' and 'walk a mile...' These are wonderful illustrations that we give our children as examples of proper behavior AND becoming respectful adults. However I will stand by my idea that most times saying something negative or voicing one's "opinions" in such a way that hurts others, aren't the way I raised my children. Unfortunately and sad to say in my younger years (Jr. high era) I was a victim of a group of girls who apparently didn't share this idea and quite possibly had not been given any instruction by their parents on the subject of being mean. I won't share all the details, but lets just say I promise you there would be tissues needed to be passed around by what I had to endure for 2 years. Luckily (and this is odd to even type) when my brother died horrifically in a fire that is when the abuse stopped. I think they indeed must have grown up and learned the 'walk a mile in my shoes' lesson and didn't inflict their anger towards me from that point on. As a young adult I again was the victim of cruel words. Mind you, I wish I had been above the torment and realized it was them that I should feel sorry for, but indeed this didn't happen. Words stick like glue. I think it takes 100 acts and words of kindness to erase the sad occurrence of being a victim of anothers choice of unkind words. That is why...my friends < :D > I wish the world, for the most part, could just look to the positive and keep the negative energy to themselves. I LOVE debates and discussion of all topics of interest, as you can tell from my posts! I just have a passion about being soft and gentle and loving and quite possibly am in a la la land with my desire for hatred with words to go away! Who knows. With what is going on in the world today I suspect anything can happen...including miracles!
Thank you
WenDee
AKA Lady La Tee Dah

[RainbowAngel]

I just have a passion about being soft and gentle and loving and quite possibly am in a la la land with my desire for hatred with words to go away! Who knows. With what is going on in the world today I suspect anything can happen...including miracles!
Thank you
WenDee
AKA Lady La Tee Dah

WenDee I just wish there were more people like you in the world.

[Upstate]

WenDee I just wish there were more people like you in the world.

Lets think about this for a moment. If someone thinks that kind and gentle people are in the minority and another person thinks that much truthfull expression is unkind isn't that just cynisism?

Myself, I'm a positive optimist and believe in the 90/10 prinicple...90% of folks are great, but if we're cynical its the other 10% of folks we remember.

"You've got to get yourself together you got stuck in a moment and you can't get out of it." -U2

[LeTishia]

I believe very much in the "do unto others...' philosophy. I have also always thought that what ever your beliefs or convictions, so long as you allow others to disagree with you peacefully, and don't try to force your views on others, you should believe as you see fit. That kind of diversity is what makes this such an amazing world to live in. It's only when one group decides that their way is the only way that real pain can follow. As for folks just eventually "getting it" and realizing that diversity, pluralism, etc, is not to be tolerated, but embraced, I believe the following quote is rather well suited:
"All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed;
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident"

have a good day all!

[jennifert]

I agree with If you can't say anything nice... if by this we mean: STOP YOUR Whining and do something about it! or if it means Say it in a positive and productive manner or if it means Don't be thoughtless about other's feelings.

I do not agree if it means not speaking truth to power, or not confronting important problems, or going along to get along. I think this expression is a much more limited concept than Do Unto Others as You Would Have Them Do Unto you. That one is just hard to screw up. Maybe that is why it is found in all religions.

On diversity. I like diversity not as a contingency plan, but more as an enrichment opportunity. There is so much we can learn from each other. Not just to survive, or even to thrive, but just to make life interesting!

How about this one: Variety is the Spice of Life!

Thanks for sharing I enjoy this thread.

[itsmewendee]

thanks for posting Jennifert...I really relate to your understanding and beliefs on this subject :)
Have a nice day!
WenDee

[liskipper]

I think a better thing to teach children that addresses the worth of the aforementioned statement is: "Do unto others as you would have done unto you." "Walk a mile"....and other truly valuable sharing the world concepts. Thanks for the thanks.
I have been a Human resources Manager for years and a recent trend in sensitivity training shows a twist on the quote above........... Rather then "do unto others as you would have done unto you", the new corporate thought process is "Treat others the way THEY want to be treated. Not neccessarily how YOU would want to be treated." I find that this is a very powerful statement. We must take into account how others percieve our conversations before we state them. recently I had an employee who came to me upset because another associate called her "silly" This confused me for "silly" was a common word that held no weight in my mind. After further conversation, the associate explained that in her country, calling someone "silly" was worse then telling them they were brain dead. We failed to treat someone as THEY want to be treated.

So I choose to "treat others the way they want expect to be treated...... not necessarily how I want to be treated

[cebii]

one of my favorite quotes, from the Dalai Lama:
“Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible.”

and another:
"As human beings we all want to be happy and free from misery… we have learned that the key to happiness is inner peace. The greatest obstacles to inner peace are disturbing emotions such as anger, attachment, fear and suspicion, while love and compassion and a sense of universal responsibility are the sources of peace and happiness.”

I've tried it both ways, and being kind and compassionate has lead to a much happier me.