Rumor?

[tara_erin]

Now mind you, I have no real proof of this other than second hand, but my old boss stopped me on the street today and asked if was true that Rosie's cruise trips were ending and that Oprah was filming the one this summer and that they were ending the vacations because of more protests?
What is the story to this? Just a bad rumor? Or is it a half-truth?
Just wondering.

[TarheelDonna]

I hope not. Please rFamily let this only be an ugly rumor!! I guess we could just go out in the middle of the water and be ourselves!! LOL!

[Gregg]

FAR FROM THE TRUTH!!!
We have more than many trips in the works...including our PFLAG cruise in March 2008, Balloon Fiesta, our July cruise this summer, Family Week in Ptown and we're about to announce our July 2008 cruise

:)
gregg

[TarheelDonna]

Thanks! I knew it was all lies! It would take something huge to keep us down. Keep on planning. We love all that you do. We get to join in as work allows. IF YOU PLAN IT WE WILL COME!!

Donna & Paula

[ajijic4me]

An email that we sent to our booking agent, Jackie, about the sudden changes to the itinerary:
Jackie,

We spoke a few days ago about the surprise change of itinerary to include two stops in FL instead of one stop in Bermuda and one day at sea.

Your explanation was forwarded to the rest of my family at dinner that night and we are still talking about it.
Since I did not receive your email explaining the reasons for the change I can only count on the way that you (Jackie) explained it to me..... truthfully, we think that is a cop-out. They win, gay families are not welcome in Bermuda!

If we were to think that no more NCL cruise would stop in Bermuda, because of this, we might be consoled. But we assume that it is only the gay families that are not including Bermuda on their itineraries?

We are members of the Fairmont Hotel Presidents Club and had looked forward for sometime to having lunch at their Bermuda property. It had all been arranged. Now we are supposed to write them and tell them that we will not be able to enjoy lunch there because we are a gay family?

How ridiculous, we were married in a Fairmont Hotel in Canada and receive equal treatment everywhere we go in the Fairmont chain of Hotels.

Now Rosie O'Donnell, who we think highly of because she takes on the likes of Donald Trump (do the hair thing again Rosie, please!), now she is going to let the bigots win?!

We are not only skipping Bermuda but spending two days in Florida (we hate visits to US ports, as Mexican citizens), not only do we loose Bermuda and an extra sea day, BUT we must tolerate the Home Land Insecurity people on two more occaisions. I think we will not be getting off in Florida.

Would not an option have been to arrive in Bermuda and refuse to spend any money in the port? Just get off the boat and sightsee? The free stuff? NCL, provide box lunches? Bottled water? Hit them where it hurts, in the pocket book. By not going there,we are saying that you can intimidate us into changing out plans.....shame on NCL for not causing more ruckus.

They should not be associated with discrimination, nor should they patronize a port that discriminates.

Imagine, a country like Bermuda with a very high percentage of people with African origins, now discriminating against another group?
And being part of the Commonwealth, well England allows same sex Marriage. Go figure?

Well, we got it off our chest! I hope we are not the only ones who feel that "they won", we lost, over Bermuda.

"Asi es", decimos en Español.

We will take the cruise as you give it to us, but not with the same enthusiasm as in past years, for sure. We have too much invested in this summers trip to NYC, etc, so cancellation is a non starter but next year we will most likely make other plans, sorry.

You guys blinked! The bigots win!

Tom Thompson, Ricardo Quirarte, Micaela Thompson, Daniel Quirarte

P.S. We even got some straight friends to come along this year after we told them for the last two years about what a great group this was. A group of cowards it seems!
Guess we were wrong.

[bullwinkle77]

Name calling "r family" and those of us who booked this July '07 cruise "cowards" is counterproductive. Did you get all of the information you needed from the source, i.e. Gregg and Kelli re: why they made this decison, before you came up with your letter? I sure hope so as we all know what they say about making assumptions.........

Besides, why on earth would you want to come cruise with all of us "cowards" anyway? Perhaps is it that you might still enjoy hanging out with all of us queer folks, our families and those that support us? Or maybe do you all have children that get to be around other kids who have families just like there own?

I completely respect everyones opinion as to what they feel/think about the change of itinerary and the reasons behind it. I completely respect everyones opinion whether you choose to come or not come on this trip, BUT I have no respect for name callers.

If you want people to respect and listen to what you have to say, please don't name call. One of those things that most kids know by the time they are in school.

[itsmewendee]

Hello bullwinkle77
Was going to send this to you in PM, but wasn't able to.
What you said is pretty much what I said in a PM to Aj but haven't heard a word back.
I hope he has taken a second thought about his post.
Only a hope I guess!
Don't understand how anyone could voice something like this to such an incredible group as RFamily is and all the work they do for us!
I take this personally because of how MUCH RFamily means to me and how the vacations have affected my families lives.
WenDee

[Crazy aka Cheryl]

:mad: A group of cowards it seems!
Guess we were wrong.

COWARDS ? I take it you were not on the Innugural Cruise.
R Family is a STAPLE now in the Gay Community.
As as matter of fact A whatever your name is
they are being HONORED for all that they do
for our community from a very prominent Temple.
One they well deserve.
Voicing your opinion is perfectly fine.
Calling them cowards IS UNACCEPTABLE and not true.
Actually they could have forwarned us of the possibility of protesters
and not have to piss people off.
Instead they did the RIGHT THING.
R Famiy was put in between a rock and a hard place.
MY MY how dare them alter the itinery and put the safety
of our children and families before your COUNTRY CLUB LUNCH.
Might I make a suggestion.
As we go by BERMUDA maybe one of your dining pals from your
A list Country Club could send a Tender for you so you don't miss your lunch.
But first you could go take a ride on one of the nice buses
from the 80 or so Churches that were going to greet us upon arrival
to take us to Church to save our souls.
I would be happy to alert them of your arrival.
What they did took integrity and guts.
I appreciate and LOVE R Family for all it stands for.
Hate to disillusion you but.
You were not the only person that was disapointed and had plans.
Yes there were other factors besides your LUNCH that had to be taken into
consideration.
Another suggestion.Charter your own boat.
Raise the GAY flag as you port in Bermuda see how many of your
lunch guests show up to greet you:rolleyes:
I have some other very creative solutions for you however I have promised
I will play nice in the sandbox.:D
PS Doing so this time was very hard given the UNECCESSARY NASTY NAME CALLING:mad:

[ajijic4me]

From the few responses posted it seems that everyone agrees that NCL should not make any more stops in Bermuda, are they? We say that because no one seems to be addressing the issue of ducking out from controversy, allowing the bigots to control our travels. All the disgust over my calling the change of itinerary cowardly seems disingenuous. We would like to see discussion of the bigots winning. 80 churches I am told can control our movements and set our itinerary?
We know what bigotry is; we live in Mexico, most of our family are Mexicans and we see on every visit to the US a few of those who would prefer we not visit there (not many but it does happen). We see it in Mexico too because we are a gay family. We do not want our children to learn to take it; ie. change our itinerary just to avoid bigots. We too are proud, we think we have a right to express our opinion about changes made apparently to avoid controversy. Especialy among people like ourselves. Other gay parents.

From the strong reaction to my posting we doubt we will see many who support that point of view coming forward with postings. References to Country Club lunch, jump off the ship, rent your own ship.....an indirect form of name calling, wouldn't you think? Kind of funny how some people think they can offend in order to hurt? Keep focused, if we support discrimination, we deserve disrcimination.

We did not receive Greg and Kellys explanation and would love to see it.
Does not the NCL cruise lines and/or the government of Bermuda have any control over the way in which visitors to that Island are
received? I would be surprised if their government wanted their island to be known for that treatment of guests.

We find it very strange that so much offense is taken at use of the word "coward" should we have used "submissive". Or should we just have kept our opinion to ourselves? Really, the criticism of our opinion really seemed scathing to us. Does that come from love? Perhaps our grasp of English is not perfect. Cowards to us are people who back down from bullies, I guess you could call them intelligent reasonable people, not all people have the intestinal fortitude to stand up against bigotry. Thank God Rosa Parks didn't take that route. In her case the bigots did not win, it was painful, did not happen overnight but one step at a time .... we shall overcome.

Proud to be a gay family, proud enough to stick to our opinions, even when they are different from yours, not ashamed to use our real names in these forum postings. See you on the ship, tom, ricardo, miki and jean daniel

[Crazy aka Cheryl]

From the few responses posted it seems that everyone agrees that NCL should not make any more stops in Bermuda, are they? We say that because no one seems to be addressing the issue of ducking out from controversy, allowing the bigots to control our travels. All the disgust over my calling the change of itinerary cowardly seems disingenous. We would like to see discussion of the bigots winning. 80 churches I am told can control our movements and set our itinerary.
We know what bigotry is; we live in Mexico, most of our family are Mexicans and we see on every visit to the US a few of those who would prefer we not visit there (not many but it does happen). We see it in Mexico too because we are a gay family. We do not want our children to learn to take it; ie. change our itinerary just to avoid bigots. We too are proud, we think we have a right to express our opinion about changes made apparently to avoid controversy. Especialy among people like ourselves. Other gay parents.

From the strong reaction to my posting we doubt we will see many who support that point of view coming forward. References to Country Club lunch, jump off the ship, rent your own ship.....an indirect form of name calling, wouldn't you think? Kind of funny how some people think they can offend in order to hurt? Keep focused, if we support discrimination, we deserve disrcimination.

We did not receive Greg and Kellys explanation and would love to see it.
Does not the NCL cruise lines and/or the government of Bermuda have any control over the way in which visitors to that Island are
received? I would be surprised if their government wanted their island to be known for that treatment of guests.

We find it very strange that so much offense is taken at use of the word "coward" should we have used "submissive". Or should we just have kept our opinion to ourselves? Really, the criticism of our opinion really seemed scathing to us. Does that come from love? Perhaps our grasp of English is not perfect. Cowards to us are people who back down from bullies, I guess you could call them intelligent reasonable people, not all people have the intestinal fortitude to stand up against bigotry. Thank God Rosa Parks didn't take that route. In her case the bigots did not win, it was painful, did not happen overnight but one step at a time we shall overcome.

Proud to be a gay family, proud enough to stick to our opinions, even when they are different from yours, not ashamed to use our real names in these forum postings. See you on the ship, tom, ricardo, miki and jean daniel
YOU CALLED R FAMILY COWARDS!!!!!
That was not just voicing an opinion.
That was a direct INSULT.
If you did some research prior to INSULTING them.
You would have found out that R family went to great lengths to try
and work something out with the churches.
They did not respond to his request for a meeting.
Gregg spoke to the Prime Mininster on several occasions
Gregg and Kelli posted daily about the situation.
In addition they made hundreds of phone calls..
There were letters from our community posted in the
Royal Gazette Bermuda's daily paper.
I dont know what you use as your source of info.
This has been flying around news stations internet boards and paper all over the world.
I spoke with the editor personally.
Gregg and Kelli spent countless hours trying to work
out a situation.
In the end they were going to have people pissed either because of the
actual itienery change or that
WE WERE STANDING DOWN BY NOT GOING
That we were letting them win.
None of us liked the idea of letting them think they WON!
There are a whole ship full of us that are GAY and PROUD.
That have put themselves directly in the line of fire and danger
because of who we are and I would gladly
have welcomed the opportunity to RUIN there day by just being there.
However Gregg and Kelli had to ultimatly decide what was best
for our SAFETY.
They took a lot of backlash and CRAP for a situation that they did not create.
That does not make them cowards.
That makes them smart, caring.
and shows their dedication to US.
It would have been much easier to take the low road.
We have posted debated this for far too long.
You are suprised by people objecting to your un informed at the very least
RUDE INSULTS?
PS I never said jump off the ship.
I did suggest that your friends from the "CLUB"
send a tender so you would'nt miss your luncheon date.
It sounded so important in your post almost as if it was the purpose of your trip.:p

CHERYL AKA CRAZY

[Crazy aka Cheryl]

Don't understand how anyone could voice something like this to such an incredible group as RFamily is and all the work they do for us!
I take this personally because of how MUCH RFamily means to me and how the vacations have affected my families lives.
WenDee

bravo wendee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bullwinkle77]

Dear Tom, Ricardo, Miki and Jean Daniel,

Did you call R Family and ask to speak with Gregg or Kelli? They are very accessible. Did you try contacting them directly and getting the full story from one of them rather than just venting at R Family on this forum?

It seems to me by your response that your passion over the change in itenerary is far more than just this one incident. It sounds to me that it may be more like the "last straw" and that you personally deal with so much homophobia/bigotry based on where you live in a way that is foreign to me. I feel very sorry for you and your family if this is your day-to-day reality living in Mexico. We all feel the discrimination but some more than others. I hope you can find some peace around your decision to still go on this cruise. I think one of the worst things in life is feeling like a decision was made without ones say. For my family, we booked this cruise with the original itenerary and have made the decision to continue with our plans. We have an 8 year son who has two moms. While my wife and I would have been fine and would have dealt appropriately with the protestors, he is only 8 years old, a second grader, and does not have the emotional tools to deal with such hatemongering. There is plenty of time for him to realize how hateful people can be toward anyone they perceive as different. We are fortunate to live in a city in California where we are totally out at our son's school, in our jobs, at our son's sporting events, to our families of origin, etc. We count our blessings that he has many friends who have gay or lesbian parents and many more who do not, yet are all supportive of our family. We know that this is not the case for everyone.

Ciao,

Tina

[Crazy aka Cheryl]

[QUOTE=ajijic4me;11637]

We are members of the Fairmont Hotel Presidents Club and had looked forward for sometime to having lunch at their Bermuda property. It had all been arranged. Now we are supposed to write them and tell them that we will not be able to enjoy lunch there because we are a gay family?
Perhaps a letter to the members explaining that you wrere un invited by their neighbors might be productive instead of calling R Family COWARDS!


Would not an option have been to arrive in Bermuda and refuse to spend any money in the port? Just get off the boat and sightsee? And what take a chance that one of the 80 churches are fanatics and might harm one of our families with physical violence.The verbal abuse was a given.....shame on NCL for not causing more ruckus.
Now there is another entitiy that could use some of your mis directed anger
productive.

They should not be associated with discrimination, nor should they patronize a port that discriminates.


You guys blinked! The bigots win!

Being responsible about the safety of my child comes first I am a warrior against any form of discrimination however you have to pick which battles to concede in order to win the WAR

Tom Thompson, Ricardo Quirarte, Micaela Thompson, Daniel Quirarte

A group of cowards it seems!
And now you seem like one of them for bashing R Family!

QUOTE]

CHERYL CHERYL CHERYL

[2moms2kids]

I do not post often but have been reading the "bantaring" back and forth regarding the decision to change the itinerary. In my life I try to listen, respect, and accept others opinions. This has obviously been very difficult for paying customers to grasp. This is not the trip they had originally paid for. I have cruised with R family 3 times. I too would have been very disappointed to cruise from NYC to FL for that outrageous price! I believe that the staff at R family had their customers' best interest at heart. I also believe that they do not need defending. They are a great group of people with a great deal of confidence and belief in what they do. No need to continue to bantar back and forth in attempts to "stick up for them". They are quite capable. It's very interesting to me how some people feel they need to "take ownership" for R Family. They are a business. Very odd. Accept one anothers' opinions and move on. The bottom line is, you either want to go on the cruise to FL or you do not! Peace.

Mel

[ajijic4me]

"I sure hope so as we all know what they say about making assumptions........."

"Besides, why on earth would you want to come cruise with all of us "cowards" anyway? "

Bullwinkle, We must admit we do not know what "they" say about making assumptions but from the outcry I do believe it must be something bad.
As for cruising with the rest of the Rfamily, we love it!

We are sad that this has caused such an explosive response, we truly wanted discussion about when we draw the line and give in to the bigots and when we don't. Guess our phrase Bunch of cowards set everyone off, we would rather have said "Appears to be a cowardly decision".

Of course what Gregg and Kelli did was in the best interest of the RFamily, in their opinions.
The decision appears to have been after much consideration, and we appreciate that.
We too love the cruises and would hate to think that the success of the Bermudians in keeping us out of their port will inspire others to do the same.
Remember that they did WIN. We are not going there!
Next time it will be easier for those kinds of people to keep us out knowing that after great thought and deliberation, they scared us off.
Please do accept my personal apology for the offense taken but not intended by a careless use of the word Coward. Had no idea how much offense would be taken, we would never have chosen that word if we thought it was going to take the debate off the decision and re-direct the debate to semantics and almost a 'hate' response.

We certainly want no ill feelings with the other parents on the ship, we just feel our children should see us fight for what is right, EVEN on vacation, not just at the convenient times.
Thompson/Quirarte Family

[Crazy aka Cheryl]

They are a business. Very odd. Accept one anothers' opinions and move on. The bottom line is, you either want to go on the cruise to FL or you do not! Peace.

Mel

To some they are more.:)
Not so odd.
Florida he we come! :D
PEACE

[cebii]

Bullwinkle's post was on the nose, for us.

We are travelling with three teens, two of whom are gay, and two three year olds. I don't want my twins scared by protesters during our vacation, and I don't want my teens to be intimidated or feel the need to argue with any protesters, which they would. And, I don't want to have to stay on the ship at our primary port of call to avoid the situation.

Luckily, they are all more than happy to exchange a day at the beach in Bermuda for a day at Disneyworld.

[katze]

I booked my cruise because it was gay friendly (and Rosie and ERASURE!!!!). I could be going out to sea for 7 days, never touch land, and still want to go. It's about the people and atmosphere, as far as I am concerned. As a bisexual, I feel more comfortable around gays and lesbians than straights.

However, I can truly see both sides of this issue (Rosie always talks about holding two different opinions in your mind at the same time. I practice it all the time!). One says, bring the church goers on....f*ck them. We're loud and proud and here to stay! Another says, ACk, my 7 and 8 yr old will be with me and I must protect them from physical harm at any cost.

Ultimately, there is a time and a place to fight. A vacation with families is probably not one of them.

I look forward to meeting everyone and having a great time; where ever we go.

Stef