Supporting Children with Special Needs on the Cruises

[hollyinpa]

I am wondering what kinds of accommodations, programming, and services are offered to families of children with special needs on these cruises. I am a special educator who thinks these cruises would be a great opportunity for these families to relax and enjoy time together while knowing their children are being fully supported and safe.

It is critical, however, to properly support and train children's programming staff and nannies to meet the needs of these children with special needs. I am just curious if any families have experienced the cruise with their children with special needs. What are your thoughts? concerns? suggestions?

If anyone would like to talk with me further about possible programming modifications and accomodations, feel free to email me or go to www.learning4alifetime.com. I'd be happy to develop and create visual supports related to cruise programming and activiities to help children with autism or with other developmental delays.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

[dogpawstka]

Thanks for your post Holly!!! I am the children's Service and Support Administrator for my County Board of MRDD and I'm the aunt of an AMAZING 10 year old boy with Tourette Syndrome, so I share the same questions and concerns. Would love to brainstorm and share experiences with you! I can't imagine a more accepting environment for children with special needs who also have gay parents or family members than the one created by the incredible rFamily staff!:-)

[hollyinpa]

I am eager to hear what Gregg and Kelli have to say with regard to supporting youngsters with special needs on the cruise.

I'd be more than happy to help them plan and implement appropriate activities for these guys and gals!

Even more important, I think, is making sure that the staff are trained and supported appropriately.

I imagine it must be difficult to leave one's child with strangers - even those that are well-trained and wonderful. Imagine how hard it would be to leave a child with special needs?!!?

I am hoping that our questions and interest will spark a new level of children's programming for future cruises.

Drop me an email anytime.

[margaret]

Holly,
I realize that this is your area of interest...but, I really think we need to look at the big picture. Kelly and Gregg are offering a one week vacation here - NOT a developmentally correct, academically enriched learning environment. The aim is for everyone onboard to have a good time. By providing childcare, they try to give parents a few hours off. This is not intended to be a full-time daycare service. We only ran into a couple of families who had kids excited enough about the kids club that they went all the time. Most kids are happy to go occasionally, but just as the adults, like to explore the ship and do the fun activities with their parents.

We are moms to a developmentally disabled 4 y.o., and I think it is enough of a vacation to have our food prepared, our room cleaned, and all that fabulous entertainment! We know that having a special needs child requires extra work on our part. We would not dream of taking our daughter to the kids club - just too much extra work for the already hardworking staff there. Nor would we want everyone to pay extra to hire special staff for the few DD kids onboard. Instead, we bring along Grandma to help with the childcare. It turns out great for all of us.

R Family Vacations and NCL do a wonderful job of accommodating people with all sorts of disabilities. If they started to offer every possible service to every person who needed special care, it would not only be overwhelming from a logistical standpoint, but likely financially impossible. Again this is designed to be a vacation, not a special week of therapy. Our daughter gets plenty of therapy at home, she enjoys a week off just as much as the rest of us!

That said, there are special vacations designed just for families with disabled children. (None that I know of for queer families, I imagine this is too small of a demographic to make it profitable.) To get an idea, check out:

http://www.familyvillage.wisc.edu/Leisure/camps.html

[hollyinpa]

Margaret,

I appreciate your feedback! I by no means think that Kelli and Gregg should overhaul their children's programming - it's just something to consider and be aware of. I certainly don't think the cruise should be "kid therapy on water" for children with disabilities. I merely thought that it would be interesting to consider how staff might be better prepared for those children that do have special needs should their families decide to take advantage of the programming on board. I imagine more children with ADD/ADHD and other needs would be in the majority compared to the lower incidence disabilities. In any case, I appreciate your honesty! Have fun on the cruise!

Holly

[SFfamily]

The people you need to talk to is Norwegian America. They provide the majority of the kid’s activities. I do not know how much training they require for their staff. RFamily has a few like pool side dances for the entire family and a few other kids’ activities.

[ColoradoDad]

As someone who works with the developmentally disabled, I see the great relief on families' faces when they find reliable respite care for their loved ones, no matter how long or short the time may be - everyone needs a break, and few more than the dedicated families of the disabled.
Holly made a great point here, and she really isn't changing the nature of the vacation experience, just attempting to make it more inclusive - an excellent goal especially considering she was offering her services to help. Any good services that provide a small respite for a dinner or a show, or even a few small family activities geared towards special needs would be a really cool thing to see. I imagine if some families expressed an interest in that, then Holly may just get taken up on her offer. :)

[hollyinpa]

I appreciate your input and support in my inquiry.

I understand how some people may feel that extensive, special accommodations may be beyond the scope of the cruise's intentions, but I think it would be a great opportunity to give many families who are raising a child with special needs to have a break and enjoy the excursions just like the other families on the cruise are doing.

I imagine that their are families out there who would love to go on such a cruise, but are reluctant to do so with their children because of their children's special needs and the fact that they may not have a chance to use the respite or nanny services because their children's needs are involved and unique.

I have heard from a family that invited their grandmother along to help with child care and other needs on the cruise and that's a great way to make sure that the child and parents are all safe and enjoying themselves. That was a good idea. What happens when the family has no such relatives to invite along in such a manner?

I guess am just trying to embrace all aspects of "inclusion" here...

Keep those posts coming. I welcome any and all feedback. It helps me see all sides of the issue.

Peace,

Holly

[Debora]

My wife and I are from Half Moon Bay and will be bringing our family. Our middle son, Luke age 24, has Down Syndrome and a severe language disorder. We have cruised on the Norweign Cruise Line in Hawaii and found the entire crew and Teen center very welcoming and accomendating for his 'special needs'. At one point we couldn't find Luke (he was suppose to go to the room get something and then return to me but he didn't! ). We alerted our family and then the ship security so the whole crew ship was looking for him. It turned out his 'found' the movie threater and went inside to watch the movie. Of course, not wanting to distrub anyone, he turned off his walkie talkie and we didn't have a clue where he was! He always carried the walkie-talkie so if he got lost or needed me he could always give it to someone who would tell me where he was. It will be great to meet other families whose children have special needs.

Deb & Christine

[hollyinpa]

Deb and Christine,

Glad to hear from you! Also nice to know that the Norweign Cruise Line was so accommodating and sensitive to your son's needs. Have fun on the cruise this summer!

[cwor0306]

This will be our 3rd cruise with Rfamily and my son has several medical special needs and the staff was very receptive to my child's needs. I will also bringing my new son who will also have speical needs related to physical disability and hopefully this will not be an issue.

Again the Norwegin Dawn staff was very supportive in the children's camp so hopefully they will also on this ship.

Chris

[RainbowAngel]

We only ran into a couple of families who had kids excited enough about the kids club that they went all the time. Most kids are happy to go occasionally, but just as the adults, like to explore the ship and do the fun activities with their parents. ]

I found a lot of kids who were happy to go all the time, mine being one of them. He was 12 the first cruise and was in the kids crew for the 10-12 year olds, and last year he was 13 and in the teen group. He loved going, found that there was so much to do, friends to hang out with, and he really enjoyed it. He would meet us for meals and for excursions and for bed, other than that he really enjoyed his time with his peer group.
I just want all parents to know, that there are a lot of kids who really enjoy the kids group and all the experiences there, and want to spend time with friends.
The kids that have been on the first, second, or both cruises, look forward to meeting their friends again each summer. My almost 14 year old talks with them online and looks forward to catching up with them on the cruise again this summer. And also making new friends this summer, that hopefully he will meet up with next year again.

[sjs5572]

I attended the 2004 Cruise with my niece who has ADHD and Aspergers. She was 13 years old at the time. Unfortunately, the camp couldn't handle her. She was ejected from the camp on the second day due to an emotional outburst after losing a game.

We asked about special accommodation, but we were told that no other guests had mentioned a "special needs" issue. We were somewhat incredulous considering that so many children in gay families are adopted specifically because of their special needs.

Fortunately, my niece met another special needs youngster on the cruise and they had a ball together. If not for that serendipitous meeting, she probably would have been bored and miserable.

I understand that the organizers can't do everything. However, on a gay family cruise,
a special needs counselor is an important consideration.

[hollyinpa]

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences here on the forum.

For those youngsters who have special needs related to autism spectrum disorders and other developmental disabilities support is often a necessity. Thank goodness your neice found a friend who appreciated her unique abilities and needs.

While watching the All Aboard! documentary I did see some children with special needs being included and having a BLAST! What a beautiful sight to see!

It appears that the R Family Cruise does attempt to include all children in their activities - it is not an easy task, however.

Have you shared your feedback with Kelli and Greg? What was their response? Just curious.

Again, I appreciate your candor and honesty.

Holly

[sjs5572]

Dear Holly,

We brought this issue up with Greg on the 2004 cruise. He responded that no other guests had inquired about a camp for special needs children. Basically, we were left on our own.

I created a special thread to get a group together to lobby for some sort of accommodation. After all, inclusiveness is a tenet of the Rfamily Vacation mission.

Regards,
sjs

sjs5572@rcn.com

[hollyinpa]

sjs-

I would be interested in taking a survey/poll of past cruise attendees and potential cruise attendees to see if there is a greater need for a "special needs" kids camp supplment for families who want to attend, but who are concerned about bringing their children with special needs. R Family Cruises aim to be all-inclusive...I wonder if Gregg and Kelli have looked any further into the potential for maybe one cruise per season offering additional support to those families who have children with special needs.


Hmmmm.

Holly

p.s. I am certainly more than willing to help train and plan for such a "special needs" program if there is interest by potential cruisegoers and the R Family staff.

[ourtribe]

SJS-
I must comment on words such as ... "lobby for some sort of accommodation. After all, inclusiveness is a tenet of the Rfamily Vacation mission."

You seem angry:mad: If your family has "special needs" then YOU make sure you bring along with you the tools for your success to accomodate what you know as your special needs. YOU make provisions for wheelchairs, diet, special feeding instruments, the specific security blanket, the respite person...YOU know what YOU need, and YOU find the resourses to make it happen. To demand with a tone of entitlement is not right. Maybe it is how words pick up different tones when written down. However even at Disney World not everyone can do the rides. Life isn't fair. You have lived with the special needs of your family I'm sure there are supports at home that can be resourced to make an excursion such as this cruise a fun and enjoyable experience for YOUR family.

I am simply grateful for this family outing made available to our community.
We are all wanting a vacation...and we all have to pack our own bags!

[hollyinpa]

I must agree that is sometimes difficult to convey feelings and emotions via the internet. So much more is needed for clear communication. Simply typing words does not always do the trick.

Personally, I didn't feel that the comments regarding sjs's experiences on the cruise evoked a sense of entitlement...maybe they did. I agree that, as families of children with special needs, there is much responsibility on their (the families') parts to make sure that their children are supported fully.

I don't think R Family Cruises can or should bend over backwards to meet the needs of every single person all of the time- that would be a futile goal to try to attain. I think it would be reasonable to create some basic continuum of programming that would support the children on board. That's why they have the nanny program for infants/toddlers, day camp for older children, and the Teen events. The challenge that comes with creating day camp programming for all kids is that it requires tons of training, staff with specific professional experience, and adult:child ratios that often are not feasible or realistic for the type of setting involved.

Other people who've been on the cruises have had very good things to say about the activities available for their children. Overall, I think R Family Cruises does a great job of including everyone overall.

I guess somewhere along the way is a happy medium...I appreciate your feedback. I always learn something from discussions like this one.

Holly

[ourtribe]

Holly,
Thank you. :)

[ourtribe]

Holly,
Thank you. :)
I agree discussion is always good.

[sjs5572a]

Dear Outribe,

I'm not angry, just trying to speak for a silent, but sizable minority.

Special needs kids are an inherent part of the GLBT community. Rosie admirably promulgates the need for gays to be allowed to foster/adopt in all 50 states. Most of the children that are made available to GLBT in the state foster systems (outside of that Utopia you call Vermont) are either special and/or minority.

My sister and her partner provide all of the support my niece needs. However, why should she, and other kids, remain in the shadows when it comes to peer interaction if that can be avoided? You see, it's not just about giving parents a break; it's also about making this cruise a fun, rewarding experience for all children.

Yes, I guess when it comes to "special needs" kids having as good a time as other kids for one week in their lives, I do feel a sense of entitlement....for them!

[24601]

Holly, are you going to be on one of the upcoming cruises?

[ourtribe]

Dear SJS,
Your point is well taken. I do appreciate your point that Vermont (what some call "utopia") is a place that has been VERY supportive toward gay adoptions. Our first was through foster care, the next was an open-direct from birth. Through it all that experience was amazing and extreamly supportive. And as I look into the eyes of my children I just can't imagin life without them...and in a world that might have taken that from me...I simply don't understand. The rights for ALL children need to be protected, as parents we feel that deeply in our heart. I hear you, the children are entitled.

As parents we try to buffer them from those situations that aren't fair...those times when the world isn't showing a place for them. Don't we know that feeling to well. Where do we crusade, and where do we just problem solve?

Thanks for your follow up.:)

[Picfan]

Dear SJS,
Your point is well taken. I do appreciate your point that Vermont (what some call "utopia") is a place that has been VERY supportive toward gay adoptions. Our first was through foster care, the next was an open-direct from birth. Through it all that experience was amazing and extreamly supportive. And as I look into the eyes of my children I just can't imagin life without them...and in a world that might have taken that from me...I simply don't understand. The rights for ALL children need to be protected, as parents we feel that deeply in our heart. I hear you, the children are entitled.

As parents we try to buffer them from those situations that aren't fair...those times when the world isn't showing a place for them. Don't we know that feeling to well. Where do crusade and where do we just problem solve?

Thanks for your follow up.:)

That is an excellent point. No matter who your child is, they all have special needs, for some more than others. If someone was to look at my son they would never know the medical problems he has had, still has and might always have. Granted they are not as severe as other have but to me they are a challenge and my concern for his problems are equal I am sure to every other Moms. He is 8 now but he suffers with really bad pain in his legs and knees at times. He use to go places in his stroller and a couple well meaning adults made comments about him being to old for a stroller (when he was 5) and it upset him and I could never get him in it again. He suffered and I suffered because of it. Because they couldn't see a problem they just assumed there wasn't one. Same happen in the bathroom one day when he was 3. I had taken him in to go and we were using the handicap stall. This was right before his 3rd surgery. He would have awful pain, he had a cyst on his tailbone. I would have to hold him and comfort him as he would go. It was awful. I am a large woman and we needed the room. Anyway there again someone made a snide comment coming out of the bathroom about handicap being for handicap. Anyway I guess my point is tolerence, acceptance, understanding and patience are thing we all need to share because we can not always see what is in front of us. Judging another from a paragraph is impossiable cause it only shows a small sliver of the person as a whole. The thing that amazes me about this board unlike any other I have ever been on is the kindness that is shown. I have yet to see any nasty wars or comments. Now I am confusing myself so I will shut up and hope that I made sense.

[cwor0306]

I agree with you there should be some kind of help for those who need it. It is true that many gay families adopt special needs children....I have two children with special needs myself.

However, this will be our 3rd cruise with Rfamily and my child did well in the kids crew. Most of his needs are medical they were a bit hesitate over that but we agreed for me to take a pager if they needed me.

They normally are more than willing to help so maybe we could suggest a few things....I know one person who posted on here was offering to help. I can offer some support if needed I am a special educator myself.

See everyone on board.

Chris

[scrappykim]

The title of the post peaked my interest since I was wondering what category of 'special needs' was being discussed (physical needs are completely different than behavioral/emotional needs).

I think that Holly was bringing up a valid point - this unique gathering of people has its unique set of needs, and I think it's completely appropriate to have a group for emotionally/behaviorally challenged children. Even if the group isn't every day/all day, it would be a great respite for the parents a couple hours a day.

[lkdl59]

I teach high school students who are emotionally/behaviorally challenged or by the federal definition (severely emotional disturbed). I also have a 45 yr old mentally retarded brother. I teach in an affluent school district but my students still are isolated sometimes from the "regular" population because of their emotional needs and behaviors. It would almost require a 1:1 accommodation. As a teacher and a sister there are situations that I would never put my students or my brother in because I know the environment would not have enough support for them, even though they may be missing out on "mainstream" activities. As a gay women I have also had to pick my environments and actually mourn times I wished that I could be like everyone else but I knew that the consequences would out weigh the benefits.
It is a sad reality of our community but as a family and caretakers we have to make those decisions. We are all unique and have many needs from birth to death. I think our society is doing a much better job to accommodate those basic needs, but it is unrealistic to except all our needs will get met with so many people in a small space.

[hollyinpa]

I appreciate your comments.

I am anxious to hear how the last cruise went for those families that chose to include their loved ones with special needs in their travels.

I don't think we all expect that all accommodations can be or should be made to include everyone on these cruises. That would an impossible goal to aspire to achieve. It's an admirable goal, but not a very realistic one given the parameters defined by going on a small ship with so many people.

I guess my original questions/comments were more about how the current cruises supported cruisegoers who has special needs. I also think the decision to include loved ones with special needs on cruises such as these is a completely personal one that shouldn't be judged in any way.

Again, thanks for commenting. I always appreciate hearing what others think.

Peace,

Holly

[JonInIowaCity]

Our eldest son (13yo) is diagnosed with moderate mental retardation. I'm not quite what kinds of accomodations we'd need for him. Childcare is kind of complicated for us. He needs more supervision than your average teen, plus he doesn't read or write or understand a lot of what goes on around him. But he doesn't fit in anymore with the younger elementary aged kids. I think we'd be more likely to try budgeting to bring along his respite worker to go with us on the cruise (assuming that Jim would feel comfortable hanging out on a cruise full of gay parents and singles for a whole week... :) ).

That said, after having seen the documentary of the maiden voyage, he would've loved spending time with the football player (sorry, I forget his name). He'd also have a blast with swimming and watching some of the shows.

Our youngest (aged 6) has some visual disabilities, but I think he'd do fine on the ship in all of the kid areas geared towards those with typical developmental needs.